05 March 2007

Banned from Groklaw

A first for me in 20 years of Internet. I got banned from a public discussion.
I was banned from Groklaw because of excessive commenting and using unacceptable language. I do admit having posted quite a few comments on Groklaw. Probably more than 50 or so in the last month. How should I know what would be excessive. I consider the quality of Groklaw objections information to be very poor and one-sided and the initiative of Groklaw to start a mailing campaign towards ISO as very pathetic and that might have shown in lots of critical commenting on Groklaw on which people often refer to the objections pages like if it were a bible. A few quick comments are easily made then.

I do have serious objections though against being accused of unacceptable language. the worst I remember is probably stating once or twice that something is complete nonsense or bull or something in that order. Nothing which would cause anyone a headache. I have posted on probably about 30 blogs or sites about OOXML in the last half year and most bloggers seem very open to another opinion about ooxml. The 'not so open' blog that is Groklaw however isn't to pleased with pro-ooxml comments. I'd wish they themselves were a bit more open about that.

And if anyone from Groklaw reads this. Yes, I use multiple IP addresses as me, my girlfriend, my parents, my friend and my work and sometimes an available open wireless have different addresses. I mostly post anonymous as registering everywhere is a lot of effort nowadays and Groklaw also removed quite a few posts that were clearly signed with The Wraith and a link to this blog. But PJ, it is fine if you and you minions want to censor the answers on groklaw to be just pro-Groklaw. I'll find other platforms that do appreciate reasonable two-way discussion on the OOXML debate.

The Wraith


JG said...

Haha, those guys really are something else.

Having just found this blog I have to say I am admiring your spunk here. I've been trying to debunk the religious fervor of the ODF crowd for quite a while but I recently decided to give up because I was just screaming into the wind on Beta News, /., and Digg, getting nowhere except feeling more irate.

I've basically decided that it really doesn't matter anyway. The Open XML format is destined to "win" anyway due to the large installed base of MS Office, especially due to the XML formats being default. Already, the Computer dept. at my school has been getting calls from administration about office files they get from students in the new formats. Since there is a free add-in for the older in-use versions of MS Office, this quickly turned into a non-issue. :)

Anyone who's given OO.o the secretary test will know how substandard it is compared to the status quo, no matter how functional and "open" it may be. No, corner cases don't count in big business, lol!

The only problem I see happening is if there are actually legislatures stupid enough to mandate a specific format for their documents. If this happens it will be real funny when we see the various ODF support forums overflowing with irate users asking why they can't work with government documents without going through some hokey conversion process with their favored office app. Haha, can't wait! ;) Of course they will have some argument saying why it's Microsoft's fault and they are always right, blah blah blah...

Hey, did you know there's a batch converter program that works over the network? It'll take all the old xls and doc and output xlsx and docx. So much for the "damn j00 M$ we demand documentation on the old binary formats too!" argument!

The Wraith said...

I got the idea I wasn't screaming into the wind. I guess getting banned on a website means that I anoyed some people with the comments I made. At least I am glad to hear I wasn't the only person to find the going though against the odf supportgroups.

I guess it will take a long while for the binary fileformats to disappear. It will take 3 to 5 years before the XML fileformats will be used more for new documents than the binary ones and probably ten years before the binary format will only be used rarely.

And actually you can get the binary format documentation here:

Anonymous said...

Why don't you post an example off what got wiped on here, and let people decide for themselves.

Personally, I would rather have oo.o than Microsoft, firstly for the price and secondly for the fact that in ten years I will still be able to read the documents I created.

If odf does become a mandated standard for government documents, I think ms will have to have a better process for converting than exists at the moment. Who will people blame when all Govt docs are in odf and they can't read them. Hmmm, maybe they should blame the people that made the software that runs on their machine.

The Wraith said...

I would be hard to get an example of what was actually on groklaw. It was basically comments on the anti-ooxml statements which dominate groklaw comments which are similar to the things I state on this blog. Looking back though I think also comments of other people were removed as looking at discussions in the last two month on groklaw there is hardly any comments left that for instance states that something on the Grokdoc objections is incorrect or that ooxml might be a valid option which is weird cause there used to be several people posting comments to that nature.

ODF is unlikely to become a standard soon. Even now probably 100 times the amount of binary office documents are created than XML office documents. Only real a fanboy can think that the world can just move to ODF in a few years. Realistically Office 2007 will take 10%-15% marketshare in the next 5 years or so effectivly making OOXML a big reality.

Realistically I think OOXML will adapt some ODF stuff in future but also I think ODF has to mature for at least two or three more years.

Christopher said...

I don't believe that Groklaw are the only ones "to start a mailing campaign"; for example, in the UK:

"Nick McGrath (director of platform strategy at Microsoft Ltd) wants us all to petition our local standards body (BSI) to support the ratification of Ecma Open XML as an ISO standard (a pleading letter was included in the conference pack)." (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/03/06/microsoft_architect_insight/)

The Wraith said...

Well, that is a bit disappointing from MS. However this is in march where the Groklaw mailing campaign was in december/januari when they emailed all people recieving the Groklaw newsletter to mail their natinal bodies.
This looks like a weakish reposnse by MS on that.

Anonymous said...

"Personally, I would rather have oo.o than Microsoft [...] for the fact that in ten years I will still be able to read the documents I created."

Uh... that's exactly the point of OOXML, which Microsoft uses today in Office 2007. What part of "open" was not clear to you? :)

Anonymous said...

Oh boy, the joy of reading the enthousiastic writings of naive fools.

Surely, Microsoft, having, what's the latests score?, 60 billion dollars in cash in the bank, being a monopoly, deriving a significant part of its revenue from MS Office wants to make itself vulnarable to free market forces by opening up the file format for its cash cow. Sure! Surely SUN, IBM, Novell and open source guys and what have you can implement the OpenXML specs and compete with Microsoft! And Microsoft is paving the way for them, is inviting them! Sure!

Let's see, how shall we put this so that even someone how solidly believes that on the 8th day God created Microsoft and that God is only truly satisfied with his Creation when every piece and slice of silicium, gallium arsenide or what have you, runs a piece of software from Microsoft can understand this.. hmm.. does a monpolist have an interest making itself vulnarable to free market forces? I don't think so. OpenXML is not open. it's "Open"XML... "Open" as in marketing "open".. as scalability in some past Microsoft PR rambling meant "application availability".

"Which part of "open" is unclear to you?" someone writes.. sure! open open open.. "open" as can be! You have been underexposed to Microsoft spin, or have swallowed MS PR like the gospel. I guess the latter.

The Wraith said...

I think that the fact that Microsoft has confirmed to several governments that ooxml is open to use is not spin but a factual support of their openness for ooxml.

If anybody is using spin, and gospellike religieus following, then it is the OSS community in their attitude towards OOXML. It is pathetic that people that have hardy any knowledge of these format at all, just blindly preach things stated by hard line anti-OOXML fanatics which are often either untrue or takne out of context.

Anonymous said...

I've noticed the same thing you have. Groklaw deletes comments they don't agree with. Rob Weir refuses to approve comments he doesn't agree with (giving the impression of unanimous approval of his writings), etc..

It's one thing to delete or fail to approve comments that are rude or offensive, but to do so with comments that challenge your beliefs is just a one-sided soapbox.

PaydayLoans said...
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Anonymous said...

This is a great blog and I love the spirit going on here. Say yes to OOXML!